Comments on: Why Should Terroir Matter… http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/ A Randall Grahm Vinthology Sat, 07 Jan 2012 02:46:54 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Randall Grahm http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-2/#comment-11765 Randall Grahm Wed, 01 Jun 2011 14:08:59 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-11765 Victor, Thanks so much for your comment. Agreed with you that vins de terroir are the only ones that really haunt us and stick in our memories till the end of our days. Victor, Thanks so much for your comment. Agreed with you that vins de terroir are the only ones that really haunt us and stick in our memories till the end of our days.

]]> By: Victor Orozco http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-2/#comment-11724 Victor Orozco Tue, 31 May 2011 20:26:18 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-11724 Great article about terroir! I an advocate of terroir and although I agree with the pros and cons above, I essentially believe that terroir, the product of interaction of man and nature, conform the perfect blend of elements to produce the very memorable wines anybody would like to try... at least once in his/her lifetime. Great article about terroir! I an advocate of terroir and although I agree with the pros and cons above, I essentially believe that terroir, the product of interaction of man and nature, conform the perfect blend of elements to produce the very memorable wines anybody would like to try… at least once in his/her lifetime.

]]> By: Bruce http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1379 Bruce Wed, 19 May 2010 16:18:39 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-1379 Bruce, I don't disagree with any of your premises. Do I have a right to state an opinion to state about terroir, despite the fact that I produce largely (though not exclusively) blended wines? I would hope so; my comments are aspirational; vins de terroir are the wines that I would most wish to produce. But Rhone wasn't built in a day, nor are new, truly sustainable vineyards planted and productive. Agreed that interventionist/non-interventionist dichotomy is quite useful, but as you point out correctly, the whole question really hinges on whether one has had either the wit/luck/accretion of historical knowledge to plant grapes in the right place, with the appropriate culture. Without meeting these criteria, any discussion of terroir is rather moot. Bruce, I don’t disagree with any of your premises. Do I have a right to state an opinion to state about terroir, despite the fact that I produce largely (though not exclusively) blended wines? I would hope so; my comments are aspirational; vins de terroir are the wines that I would most wish to produce. But Rhone wasn’t built in a day, nor are new, truly sustainable vineyards planted and productive. Agreed that interventionist/non-interventionist dichotomy is quite useful, but as you point out correctly, the whole question really hinges on whether one has had either the wit/luck/accretion of historical knowledge to plant grapes in the right place, with the appropriate culture. Without meeting these criteria, any discussion of terroir is rather moot.

]]> By: Charles Serrano http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1075 Charles Serrano Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:55:11 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-1075 The term 'terroir' has some pretty early usages. Étymol. et Hist. 1. 1212 tieroir « territoire » (Vente, Ctes d'Art., 47, A. Pas-de-Calais ds Gdf. Compl.); 1229 terroir (Trésor des Chartes du Comté de Rethel, éd. G. Saige, I, 101, 22 ds Morlet, p. 216); d'où 2. 1283 terroir « terrain considéré par rapport à l'agriculture » (Philippe de Beaumanoir, Coutumes, éd. A. Salmon,773); 1549 goust du terroir (à propos d'un vin) (Est., s.v. goust); 1561 fig. resentir son terroir (d'un homme) (J. Grévin, Théâtre compl., éd. L. Pinvert, Au lecteur, p. 49). Du lat. pop. *terratorium du class. territorium, territoire* d'apr. terra, terre*. source: http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/terroir Centre national de références textuelles et lexicales ; March 2010 I found the 1549 goust du terroir (à propos d'un vin) that largley predates the Napoleonic appelation system to be very interesting. The term ‘terroir’ has some pretty early usages.

Étymol. et Hist. 1. 1212 tieroir « territoire » (Vente, Ctes d’Art., 47, A. Pas-de-Calais ds Gdf. Compl.); 1229 terroir (Trésor des Chartes du Comté de Rethel, éd. G. Saige, I, 101, 22 ds Morlet, p. 216); d’où 2. 1283 terroir « terrain considéré par rapport à l’agriculture » (Philippe de Beaumanoir, Coutumes, éd. A. Salmon,773); 1549 goust du terroir (à propos d’un vin) (Est., s.v. goust); 1561 fig. resentir son terroir (d’un homme) (J. Grévin, Théâtre compl., éd. L. Pinvert, Au lecteur, p. 49). Du lat. pop. *terratorium du class. territorium, territoire* d’apr. terra, terre*.

source: http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/terroir Centre national de références textuelles et lexicales ; March 2010

I found the 1549 goust du terroir (à propos d’un vin) that largley predates the Napoleonic appelation system to be very interesting.

]]> By: Charles Serrano http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1073 Charles Serrano Fri, 02 Apr 2010 00:49:13 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-1073 The notion of terroir is not just a construct, It s a cultural artifact, evidence that points to a different way of looking at things. The French have a long and complex attachment to the land they live on and the soil they cultivate. French culture is replete with examples. Notre Dame de Paris, as with much gothic architecture in Paris is made of stone found under the city of Paris. Older neighborhoods have buildings that identically match the pavement of the cobblestone streets where they are located. An old roman arena, Les Arènes de Lutèce, serve as a playground for children in the 5th arrondissement. It is as if buildings have grown from the ground itself. But architecture is not the only domain where the French find themselves linked to the soil. French people identify themselves with their place of origin. Accents aside, amongst each other French people will give their land (‘pays’) of origin as a way of letting others know what they are about. The word ‘pays’ means more than country, there are very clear connotations of region and ethnicity. To be ‘dijonnais’, or ‘toulousain’ is a point of pride. Such appellations imply cultural differences, food preferences and clear penchants for particular sports teams. It is the linguistic equivalent of one American saying to another, I am a Central-California-Coastian. The concept of ‘pays’ plays a part in how a French person defines him- or herself. The French know where their food comes from. At the Salon de l’Agriculture in Paris, the animals and plants are the attraction. If you want to see tractors, irrigation systems and chemical fertilizers you have to go to the convention centers outside of the city. Furthermore, you will see a prize bull standing right next to a food concession giving away beef kebabs. There are no qualms at all about buying chicken with the feet on, or cooking rabbits with the heads on. The French are aware of the fact that their food comes from the land and they live with that notion in their day-to-day consumption. Another example of how fundamentally important the concept of land is can be found in the French national anthem. La Marseillaise, is a violent song meant to evoke strong, visceral feelings of national pride and defense. It pays homage to the land and the soil in the refrain: Aux armes citoyens ; Formez vos bataillons ; Marchons, marchons ; Qu'un sang impur abreuve nos sillons (May impure blood water our furrows). You can dismiss the comcept of terroir only by ignoring that that is how French people see things. Jose Bove, an AOC roquefort maker, has very definite opinion on the topic and as you are probably aware has had some success in affecting public policy. The question is then, how does this affect wine: You cannot argue that there is no effect without completely ignoring the INOC (The Institut National des Appellations d’Origine ). The INOC not only regulates wine labeling in France as a quality control measure, it regulates what cultivars can be planted; how the vines are trained; appropriate canopy management; tonnage of fruit harvested; fermentation methods; pricing; and, distribution. An example of such regulation is that premier cru Bordeaux wines have to be fermented using native yeasts. That only leaves you with one logical arguement - French wine and food are not that great anyway. The French have been setting the standard for a long time and rightly so - they make darn good food and wine. I really think you are ignoring something obvious just because you do not understand what it really implies. The notion of terroir is not just a construct, It s a cultural artifact, evidence that points to a different way of looking at things. The French have a long and complex attachment to the land they live on and the soil they cultivate. French culture is replete with examples. Notre Dame de Paris, as with much gothic architecture in Paris is made of stone found under the city of Paris. Older neighborhoods have buildings that identically match the pavement of the cobblestone streets where they are located. An old roman arena, Les Arènes de Lutèce, serve as a playground for children in the 5th arrondissement. It is as if buildings have grown from the ground itself. But architecture is not the only domain where the French find themselves linked to the soil.
French people identify themselves with their place of origin. Accents aside, amongst each other French people will give their land (‘pays’) of origin as a way of letting others know what they are about. The word ‘pays’ means more than country, there are very clear connotations of region and ethnicity. To be ‘dijonnais’, or ‘toulousain’ is a point of pride. Such appellations imply cultural differences, food preferences and clear penchants for particular sports teams. It is the linguistic equivalent of one American saying to another, I am a Central-California-Coastian. The concept of ‘pays’ plays a part in how a French person defines him- or herself.
The French know where their food comes from. At the Salon de l’Agriculture in Paris, the animals and plants are the attraction. If you want to see tractors, irrigation systems and chemical fertilizers you have to go to the convention centers outside of the city. Furthermore, you will see a prize bull standing right next to a food concession giving away beef kebabs. There are no qualms at all about buying chicken with the feet on, or cooking rabbits with the heads on. The French are aware of the fact that their food comes from the land and they live with that notion in their day-to-day consumption.
Another example of how fundamentally important the concept of land is can be found in the French national anthem. La Marseillaise, is a violent song meant to evoke strong, visceral feelings of national pride and defense. It pays homage to the land and the soil in the refrain: Aux armes citoyens ; Formez vos bataillons ; Marchons, marchons ; Qu’un sang impur abreuve nos sillons (May impure blood water our furrows).
You can dismiss the comcept of terroir only by ignoring that that is how French people see things.
Jose Bove, an AOC roquefort maker, has very definite opinion on the topic and as you are probably aware has had some success in affecting public policy.
The question is then, how does this affect wine: You cannot argue that there is no effect without completely ignoring the INOC (The Institut National des Appellations d’Origine ). The INOC not only regulates wine labeling in France as a quality control measure, it regulates what cultivars can be planted; how the vines are trained; appropriate canopy management; tonnage of fruit harvested; fermentation methods; pricing; and, distribution. An example of such regulation is that premier cru Bordeaux wines have to be fermented using native yeasts.
That only leaves you with one logical arguement – French wine and food are not that great anyway.
The French have been setting the standard for a long time and rightly so – they make darn good food and wine. I really think you are ignoring something obvious just because you do not understand what it really implies.

]]> By: Randall Grahm http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1028 Randall Grahm Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:23:43 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-1028 Thanks man. One tries for coolness in all things, but especially in vineyard sites. Thanks man. One tries for coolness in all things, but especially in vineyard sites.

]]> By: Randall Grahm http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-1027 Randall Grahm Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:22:11 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-1027 Bruce, I don't disagree with any of your premises. Do I have a right to state an opinion to state about terroir, despite the fact that I produce largely (though not exclusively) blended wines? I would hope so; my comments are aspirational; vins de terroir are the wines that I would most wish to produce. But Rhone wasn't built in a day, nor are new, truly sustainable vineyards planted and productive. Agreed that interventionist/non-interventionist dichotomy is quite useful, but as you point out correctly, the whole question really hinges on whether one has had either the wit/luck/accretion of historical knowledge to plant grapes in the right place, with the appropriate culture. Without meeting these criteria, any discussion of terroir is rather moot. Bruce, I don’t disagree with any of your premises. Do I have a right to state an opinion to state about terroir, despite the fact that I produce largely (though not exclusively) blended wines? I would hope so; my comments are aspirational; vins de terroir are the wines that I would most wish to produce. But Rhone wasn’t built in a day, nor are new, truly sustainable vineyards planted and productive. Agreed that interventionist/non-interventionist dichotomy is quite useful, but as you point out correctly, the whole question really hinges on whether one has had either the wit/luck/accretion of historical knowledge to plant grapes in the right place, with the appropriate culture. Without meeting these criteria, any discussion of terroir is rather moot.

]]> By: Geoff http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-777 Geoff Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:35:51 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-777 cool perspective cool perspective

]]> By: Good Reads Wednesday « Artisan Family of Wines http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-772 Good Reads Wednesday « Artisan Family of Wines Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:01:34 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-772 [...] http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/ [...] [...] http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/ [...]

]]> By: Randall Grahm http://www.beendoonsolong.com/2010/02/why-should-terroir-matter/comment-page-1/#comment-766 Randall Grahm Wed, 03 Mar 2010 01:56:12 +0000 http://www.beendoonsolong.com/?p=1012#comment-766 I'm not sure if it is the only solution - vins de terroir are possibly often out of the price range of the ordinary drinker. But certainly honest wines - non-spoofilated in the parlance of Joe Dressner - are definitely a step in the right direction. Like so many other aspects of modern life, we have become quite inured to the grotesque and the outré. I’m not sure if it is the only solution – vins de terroir are possibly often out of the price range of the ordinary drinker. But certainly honest wines – non-spoofilated in the parlance of Joe Dressner – are definitely a step in the right direction. Like so many other aspects of modern life, we have become quite inured to the grotesque and the outré.

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